tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1367053740188758246.post4587489293818327940..comments2023-06-21T00:39:34.443-07:00Comments on Dosbat: Well I'm not going to post on April 1st...Chris Reynoldshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16843133350978717556noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1367053740188758246.post-78332997388143151022013-04-01T00:23:32.697-07:002013-04-01T00:23:32.697-07:00Thanks Kevin,
I'd been wondering about this m...Thanks Kevin,<br /><br />I'd been wondering about this mechanism, and very nearly asked if the thinner ice is 'warmer' in the post.<br /><br />I think there's also the past pattern that thinner ice has been on the periphery of the pack that melts out, this accounts for the clustering near the line where thinning = initial thickness.<br /><br />The relevant paper here is Winton 2000, "A Reformulated Three-Layer Sea Ice Model"<br />http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/related_files/mw0001.pdfChris Reynoldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16843133350978717556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1367053740188758246.post-49510873654219761642013-03-31T11:15:09.525-07:002013-03-31T11:15:09.525-07:00Chris - I don't find it surprising that ice &l...Chris - I don't find it surprising that ice < 2.5 meters thickness thins more than ice > 2.5 meters.<br /><br />I'd guess the thinning should be non-linear and that the thinner the ice the more it thins. <br /><br />I base this on a simple thought experiment. Take two slabs of ice, one 2m thick and the other 5m thick, and expose them to the same winter conditions. Come spring as air temperatures climb and incoming solar increases we should begin to see melt. Given the thermal gradient of ice, it will take more energy to melt the thicker ice to a depth of 1m than the thin ice to the same 1m depth.<br /><br />I.e., there will be a lot more 'cold' ice near the surface in older, thicker ice. The ocean temperature sets the bottom ice temperature and the air temperature sets the surface ice temperature.<br /><br />PIOMAS should be able to model the physics of this averaged across differing thicknesses without a problem.Kevin O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06692943768484857724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1367053740188758246.post-78162412718823589022013-03-31T07:49:59.610-07:002013-03-31T07:49:59.610-07:00Kevin,
This is something I need to ask Dr Zhang. ...Kevin,<br /><br />This is something I need to ask Dr Zhang. From the papers I've been reading there are two albedos - ice and snow. I don't recall melt ponds being accounted for.<br /><br />Indeed when I search for 'melt pond' in Zhange 2003 "Modeling Global Sea Ice with a Thickness and Enthalpy Distribution Model in<br />Generalized Curvilinear Coordinates." I get no results!<br /><br />This might explain why the anomalies increase then level after the spring melt. But as I say it's on my list of questions for Dr Zhang.Chris Reynoldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16843133350978717556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1367053740188758246.post-35422237079990367632013-03-31T07:18:35.700-07:002013-03-31T07:18:35.700-07:00Chris - How does PIOMAS handle melt ponds? I assu...Chris - How does PIOMAS handle melt ponds? I assume the resolution isn't small enough to model them by physics, so there must be a parameter that they can tune to account for increased melt ponds on thin, young ice and the corresponding change in albedo.<br /><br />Kevin O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06692943768484857724noreply@blogger.com